Posted by Grueni on Mrz 6, 2009

Massig Blueposts in Richtung Patch 3.1

Es gibt wieder eine Menge Blueposts zu kommenden Änderungen, eine Auflistung gibt es unten.

Grand Black War Mammoth
I just removed this from the “Master of Wintergrasp” meta achievement earlier today. It was just too rare to be included in the meta. Don’t worry though, we still have the Grand Black War Mammoth achievement on its own. =) This change will go live with 3.1.0. (Quelle)

Racial changes in 3.1
We are going to lower the cooldown on Stoneform from 3 min to 2 min. We are also reverting the change to have Gift of the Naaru dispel, and just change it to a direct heal instead of a hot. (Quelle)

Increasing power of spells or pets based on the amount of players in the group
Yeah, that is something we have considered a couple of times. It does fix some problems. A bigger issue than the technology is whether it might be confusing for new players to learn or for experienced players to calculate on the fly.

We like for grouping to be a power multiplier. You should be significantly stronger when grouping than you are alone. When some of your abilities diminish relative to the size of the group, that risks confusing things.

It’s not off the table though. (Quelle)

Raids & Dungeons – The Immortal Q&A
- The Immortal, can be done by killing KT w/ out dying (if you have not be present for any other bosses in that reset)
Correct. If you do not die on any other bosses and get to Kel’thuzad, you could (conceivably) sell slots and bring in random people for Kel’thuzad and (assuming nobody dies), they would get the achievement.

- The Immortal, can be done by killing KT w/ out dying (even if the raid *w/ you not present* died on a boss)
If anybody died on any boss, the raid ID is no good.

- The Immortal, can be archived by wiping a boss that anyone dies on … and deaths will only count against you on the attempt in which the boss is actualy killed
Wipes include deaths, so this makes the raid ID no good as well. Deaths on trash are fine, deaths on bosses nullify the raid ID for the whole week it is active. (Quelle)

Tanking – Cooldowns
I said in one of these threads that having cooldowns that are too precious (usually because their cooldown is long) aren’t fun. When you tanked Golemagg (and you were a warrior of course, because nobody else tanked) you had your nice Shield Wall button that you only used to avoid a wipe. Shield Block was used every time it was up. I think those are the extremes and we need to avoid them.

In other words, having oh snap buttons that you can use regularly (say every few minutes) is something we think is fun, especially if you can match them to the boss doing something terrible to you.

We definitely designed the DK to use a lot of cooldowns, in part because otherwise they would be hitting the same buttons they did when not tanking. But we recognize the danger of chanining cooldowns. One danger is it makes non DK tanks less viable on new or challenging content. Another danger is that tanking becomes a game where if you miss one button in the right fraction of a second then you wipe.

We also recognize that if we change DK cooldowns that their base mitigation would need to come up to compensate. We futher recognize that doing that too much leads to four tanks with the same exact health, armor and avoidance numbers. We don’t want a world where the druid has Bear Wall and Bear Stand and Bear Block all of the same magnitude as the warrior, and some players would argue we are too close to that already.

However we also don’t want a world where there is one real tank class and several backup tanks only suited for trash or heroics. That one real tank class was the warrior for a long time. We don’t want it to be the DK or the druid or really anyone now. (Quelle)

Tanking – Crushing Blows
While crushing blows did help provide tanking niches, we just think they were too random. Particularly on challenging content, whether the tank lived or died had an awful lot to do with the frequency or timing of crushing blows. The mechanic also tended to over-reward avoidance in order to “push them off the table.”

The “new crushing blows” are less random. We can make sure they don’t happen in chains and we can choose to broadcast warnings to the raid when warranted so that players can choose to blow their cooldowns.

The problems we have are that some classes have better cooldowns than others, which are exacerbated by having very high avoidance numbers even in the first tier of content. Avoidance just puts back in some of the random element we were trying to minimize by pulling crushing blows.

It’s fine if DKs have higher avoidance and better cooldowns. It’s fine if druids have larger heatlh pools. We just need to make sure those mechanics don’t give them an overwhelming advantage on some content, particularly the most important content (which is generally the fights that provide the best rewards).

We understand every tank is worried about being marginalized or even replaced. It’s a tall order to keep the tanking mechanics different but within some level of partiy, but that is also to some extent what designing this game is all about. (Quelle)

Tanking – Patchwerk Test on PTRs

It is too early to have a “stance.” We are still looking at the data and finalizing all of our tanking changes. But I can offer you some rambling thoughts.

1) When cooldown tank abilities have too long a cooldown they don’t get used because you tend to save them for emergencies. When they are too short, you just blow them whenever because they will be back up. Hitting that sweet spot is tough especially when there are multiple cooldowns that can be chained.

2) The Patchwerk test used in these tests doesn’t have the kind of timed, big hits that generally encourage players to save their cooldowns.

3) DKs are probably too good on tanking fights that do have those kind of timed, big hits if they are magical. Unfortunately the one really hard encounter in the game is a dragon that does just that.

4) Avoidance may be too high given what tier we’re in.

5) We are trying to make frequent PTR builds. Part of that means it isn’t feasible to go office to office and make sure everyone has every change checked in before we make a build. In some cases we change abilities and things like glyphs or set bonuses get left behind.

We greatly appreciate the numbers and the amount of effort players are putting into generating and interpreting those data. Let’s please stick to analysis and not jumping to conclusions about who is getting benched in Ulduar.

If I need to say it again, the goal is that you can have any of the four classes as your MT, so long as that player has sufficient skill and appropriate gear and is backed up by a raid that knows what the blank they are doing. (Quelle)

Replenishment (Quelle)
I think at this point the discussion is less about clarifying our position and more about some players just not liking the concept of Replenishment or wanting even more flexibility in who they invite. I’m not sure logical arguments are going to sway anyone’s position. Nevertheless, I will attempt to outline the design from our point of view:

  • We want you to group.
  • We want you to be more powerful when you group.
  • One way we do that is by letting you benefit from buffs that other players bring.
  • We can’t give everyone a unique buff that guarantees them a raid slot. We tried this in BC. What happens is that the classes with necessary buffs are brought and the others are ignored. There are 10 classes and 30 specs in the game. You can’t bring them all to a 25-player raid or certainly a 10-player raid.
  • We asked some cutting-edge raiders during LK development: How many balance druids, ret paladins or death knights are you going to bring? The answer was probably none. They didn’t have any space.
  • So our solution was to give you multiple ways to get the buffs. Different specs bring different versions of the same benefit that do not stack. Hopefully those specs will be attractive, but not so attractive that you want to stack the raid with them. You have more flexibility. You can make decisions about which players to bring.
  • In BC, Shadow priests brought the buff that we now call Replenishment. As a result, Shadow priests were pretty much mandatory to raid in BC. Great for Shadow priests. Bad for other dps classes. Our solution was not to cut the mechanic but to offer it to more specs to give you more flexibility.
  • Now we could have cut the mechanic. We could have tried to come up with another cool benefit that Shadow priests, Retribution paladins and the others bring. But the mechanic worked. Groups were happy when they had a Shadow priest. Shadow priests were happy that their groups were happy.
  • Depending on who you ask, there are other buffs that are mandatory. Bloodlust / Heroism and battle rez get brought up a lot. Kings and Fort are pretty huge. We don’t assume you have any of those, except Replenishment. We assume you have a tank, healer, dps, some form of crowd control, and a mana battery in your raids.
  • As a hedge on that bet, we also made the introductory content easier. Far more players have experienced Naxxramas compared to Karazhan, and we think that is a big win.
  • If you didn’t raid a lot in BC, you may not remember how bad it was then. Perhaps you want even more flexibility than we offer today. That is a valid standpoint to take, but it definitely does get harder for us to offer content of an appropriate challenge (meaning neither too high nor too low) when your group can literally be of any composition with any medley of raid buffs.
  • Similarly, if you are skilled and organized, you can likely get by even without essential buffs like Replenishment. Some of you will probably beat hard modes without Replenishment. Others of you won’t dream of trying without it, Bloodlust, Prayer of Fortitude, Blessing of Kings, Mark of the Wild and so on. We are not at all guaranteeing every group will be able to beat the hard modes. Remember, Algalon feeds on your tears.
  • We don’t think you need Replenishment (or any buff) to do heroic 5-player content. You do need a tank and a healer. You probably don’t even need a tank or healing spec, depending on your skill and gear (meaning an Arms warrior and Ret healer could do fine).
  • We don’t think you need Replenishment to do a 5-player Arena team, but it can be a nice bonus.
  • We don’t think you need Replenishment to solo. The issue of how often various classes or specs should have to take a break while soloing (i.e. drink for mana-users) is something we discuss a lot. Some specs don’t have to do it at all, such as any priest with Spirit Tap. Classes with healing spells, especially druids, can top themselves off and keep going. Other classes without mana, especially warriors, have a lot of down time to eat or bandage. It’s a larger discussion, but you can certainly make a compelling argument that every spec should have around the same down time.

Replenishment and healers
That argues healers are stronger than other classes when solo since it is not your output that is diminished when alone. It is only your regeneration and I haven’t seen too many arguments from healers that say they are OOM after healing themselves from a typical solo encounter.

Put another way, here are the common concerns I see:

1) We don’t want to rely on other classes for superior mana regen when grouping.
2) We won’t have enough mana regen in 5-player content.
3) We won’t have enough mana regen when soloing.
4) We will have too much downtime when soloing.

1 is just the design of the game. 4 is a concern. We aren’t convinved 2 and 3 are going to be a big deal. Actually, I will add a 5th, which is that Replenishment makes Int much better than Spirit. There is some validity to that point, but at the same time, Spirit still does something for casters (it is rarely wasted) and you are not often choosing directly between Int and Spirit. But mana regen stats are something we are taking a bigger look at. Either Spirit or Int or mp5 always feels like the queen stat and it is probably not tenable to have so many regen stats in the long term. (Quelle)

“Bring the player not the class”
I think by now most of you know what “Bring the player not the class” is intended to mean. It doesn’t mean your raid of 10 Holy paladins is going to be very successful. Most players aren’t arguing that point because it seems like a silly position to take. So I think we all agree that it is a matter of degree and expectation. In Sunwell, specs with bad buffs were sat out. Specs that needed a jigsaw puzzle of buffs in their 5-player group within the raid in order to be useful were sat out. Other specs or classes were stacked to a pretty ridiculous degree. We don’t think that design was good for the game. If you have a good friend you want to raid with, you should have plenty of room in your raid now to bring them. You don’t need their buff, because you are able to get it through another raid member. You’re not missing any buffs, because they are almost all raid wide. There are many configurations that will let you get what you need and still have a few slots to spare. For those spots, you can bring the player, because you don’t need their class. Now if it’s a hard mode, that player better be good…. (Quelle)

Emblems of Conquests
This is the main point, the badge system was new in The Burning Crusade and we are working on improving it. We want to avoid having people stock up on Karazhan/Naxxramas throughout the entire patch cycle and provide more of a reason to focus on new/higher content to progress through it. With all of the dungeon versions coming out people would feel “forced” to do Naxx10, Naxx25, Ulduar10, and Ulduar25 each week to stock up on piles of one badge to whenever the next tier came out they could buy everything – having a tiered badge system requires everybody to start on the same level and earn new badges for new gear.

Also, the emblems can be downranked (but not the other way) so you can turn in emblems of valor/conquest and get emblems of heroism to buy gems or even heirloom items if you decide to level another character. (Quelle)

Balancing classes
It is not our goal that you (or any class) have crappy versions of other buffs so you feel like second-class citizens. To be fair though, a lot of players make this claim about their raid buffs. Some of these complaints are totally legit and some are just thinly veiled requests for damage / healing / tanking buffs. We are trying to adjust areas where your buff feels inferior to another buff, either because it is too expensive, doesn’t last as long, has an opportunity cost or whatever.

What we are not interested in doing:

– Buffing a spec because their buffs are inferior. (We would rather fix the buffs.)
– Giving any spec unique buffs to make sure they will earn a spot.
– Buffing a spec because another spec with those buffs is “always” in the group. (The intent is that “always” depends on the guys you run with.)
– Coming up with an over-specific or unrealistic model where warriors are 1% above druids and 3% above shamans or whatever. Such a design would shatter the first time someone upgraded their gear.
– Start defining things in terms of half-hybrids or two-third hybrids or whatever. Related to the previous point, having fewer larger buckets works better for a number of reasons.

Apologies if I sounded snippy. I am just surprised that anyone who follows these forums would not know our goal for the stack rank of dps classes. The topic is perennially on the first page here.

What I didn’t mention is that in BC the goal was to keep hybrid classes far inferior to the dps of the rogues, warlocks, mages and hunters. We want it to be much closer now. If you know your class cold, I mean really know it, then there is no reason you can’t be topping meters. But some (key word) of that responsibility lies with you and not with us juicing the numbers in your favor. (Quelle)

04/03 Realms and migration (Quelle)
Recommended realms
Normal/PvE: Azuremyst, Saurfang, Terokkar
PvP: Boulderfist, Shattered Halls, Vek’nilash
RP: Steamwheedle Cartel
RP PvP: Scarshield Legion

Saurfang (normal/PvE), Battlegroup Misery, opened January 31 as a fresh realm (no migration to the realm for 90 days).

Free Character Migration (FCM)
Please note that any migration may be closed at any time should a destination realm’s population rise too high.

To improve the faction ratio on Magtheridon, the following migrations are available from March 4th to 10th:

Horde only: Magtheridon –> Haomarush, Tarren Mill, Trollbane, Zenedar, Silvermoon (PvE)
Alliance only: Anachronos, Bloodhoof, Darkspear, Doomhammer, Hellfire, Nordrassil, Quel’Thalas, Silvermoon, Wildhammer –> Magtheridon (PvP)

No other FCM will be open this week for English realms.

“Hero” class
We have said this before, but I know it’s hard to keep up with all the news sometimes. DKs being a hero class means they start at high level and get showered in blue items and mounts while leveling up. It doesn’t entitle them to dominate every aspect of the game in which they participate.

A dps DK should do about as well as an Arms or Fury warrior or Enhancement shaman in PvE or PvP. A tanking DK should be about as effective as a warrior, paladin or druid tank. Your skill, gear, group and the specifics of the encounter may scoot “how effective” up and down quite a bit. (Quelle)

DK Changes in 3.1
Death knights are probably going to change more than any other class in 3.1. We have four years of class iteration history to catch up on!

Some of the changes will be buffs and some will be nerfs. While we are not asking anyone to refrain from commenting until all the changes are made (that is the whole point of the PTR), I would keep things in perspective. High fiving your mates because you got buffed or quitting the game because you got nerfed are probably premature until we are farther along.

There are certainly cases where DKs are too good at tanking, too good at dps and too good at PvP and those are definitely things we are addressing. (Quelle)

[...] I think Death Strike will not end up as a superior ability to Obliterate. Hopefully Death Strike will end up as a decent button to use when wounded.

I think Howling Blast will end up as a talent Frost wants to take.

We think Annihilation is an attractive talent. We don’t think it is mandatory for Blood and Frost will probably get it anyway. A lot of Blood DKs will also get it. The question is whether there is a Blood – Unholy build that works with all of the talent changes (and as I suggested above, more are coming). (Quelle)

Lifebloom nerf in PvP
Some of you are trying to use the argument “You can’t nerf a spell that is overpowered because the class with that spell is weak.” That isn’t an argument that is going to convince us. What will convince us are arguments that druids in PvP are very dependent on rolling Lifebloom on multiple targets. Remember, the HPS of the spell is not changing at all, and in fact, it will cause even more healing when it is dispelled or you stop renewing it.

Several players are basically just saying “They nerfed Lifebloom. I use Lifebloom. I don’t want to be nerfed.” You need to look at the details of the changes and analyze what they are going to do. Let’s please try and keep this thread focused on PvP, and please keep it focused on Lifebloom and not Resto representation or paladins or anything else.

[...] While we realize sometimes you will have to make that prediction, sometimes it will be a lot easier. Many druids don’t try to refresh LB until it is about to fall off (or else you are just wasting GCDs and mana). At the last moment, you can choose not to refresh it if the bloom is more valuable. I completely understand this is not going to be the case every time, but neither are you trying to predict 10 sec ahead every time.

In any case, I would view the bloom bonus more as a consolation prize if the heal is dispelled or you are CC’d or the target is out of LOS. While there is much speculation about whether you should let it or force it to bloom (which we are following with interest), really our goal was that in cases where you can’t keep it rolling you get something back.

We don’t want to kill rolling dead, and if these changes do that, we can chill them out a little. We talked to druids with a lot of PvP experience about whether this change would be a buff or nerf to them. They liked the change to the bloom mechanic, which is why we are interested in hearing from those of you who were effective in keeping full stacks of 3 on multiple team members, and for whom this change will likely be a nerf. (Quelle)

Rejuvenation and Lifebloom
We don’t mind Rejuv being so efficient, in part because it’s a slow heal. You can’t just use efficient heals and you can’t just use high throughput heals to be effective. That’s why you have an arsenal of healing spells. We nerfed Lifebloom rolling because it could provide a lot of HPS and was also efficient enough to do so on multiple characters at once.

The main counter to that stance seems to be that hots overheal a lot or are squished by aggressive direct healers. Those are valid points. But at the same time, we are asking healers to be more efficient with their mana and to care more about overhealing. In that environment, we thought that Resto druids would be too good. (Quelle)

Lifebloom bug on 3.1 PTRs
We think there may be a bug on the PTR where the target sometimes gets the mana return instead of the druid. If you cast it on yourself it should work correctly. This isn’t our intent and we’ll get it fixed. (Quelle)

Savage Defense
Sorry that it hasn’t been available for testing yet. We haven’t changed the design. In fact, all of the recent discussions on who can tank what boss have reinforced our belief that the change is a good idea.

We had a couple of dumb bugs with getting the ability on the trainer. Hopefully next patch build or so. We realize it is prohibiting your ability to provide feedback. (Quelle)

Blackout (Priests) removal and consequences for Impact
We don’t mind stuns, just random stuns that frustrate both the attacker and defender. We think we can keep the role of Impact, which is something that can really help Fire in PvP, without it being quite so frustrating. (Quelle)

Retribution changes
One of the changes we are trying to do with Ret is to get them into the other trees a little more. This is definitely one of those specs where players would go 0/0/71 if we let them. I would not assume that trees with few talents are unfinished. The Prot warrior lost a lot of talents in LK, but it was a good change for them. Overall, our trees are probably too thick for lots of classes which makes it hard to spend many points in a second tree.

We do want to bring Ret’s damage up a little, and we would like to get more talents in the other trees that they actually want to take. (Quelle)

Power Word: Barrier (Power Word: Shield for the whole group) and Hymns revamp
We’d still like to do Barrier, but some of the revamps ended up more extensive than we planned. At this point we’d rather make what we have taste good instead of throwing new ingredients into the stew, but it’s an idea we still like.

Believe it or not, hymns are still being worked on. Now that the squid works a little better, Hymn of Hope has even less of a role. (Quelle)

Warrior changes in 3.1
I’m not going to preview the changes here, but I will say that the next PTR build has some dps warrior changes.

1) These are not all the changes. We don’t expect these changes to bring up Arms alone.
2) A couple of the changes have significant ramifications for Battle Stance.
3) A couple of other changes may seem cautious. They are. If they work then we will consider buffing them even more over time.

Sorry to be so cryptic. You’ll hopefully get to see for yourself soon. (Quelle)

Warrior DPS compared to other classes
Rogues, mages, warlocks and hunters should be doing the highest dps, if you assume all other things are equal. Other things are never equal. Gear, skill, group buffs and encounter (in PvE) all matter a lot. In PvP, highest damage matters a lot less than specific abilities that let you control or break control.

There will be fights where warriors are on top because the situations favor them. There will be fights where the shamans or priests are on top.

Arms and Fury warriors should be mixed in with Elemental and Enhancement shamans, Shadow priests, Retribution paladins, Feral and Balance druids, and 3 types of DKs. Currently on live we feel that Arms isn’t up to this level and Fury is too high. If you think Fury is not too high then you are probably comparing your dps on live to classes that also received dps nerfs in 3.1. (Quelle)

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